the love one

so i believe the absence of food is the absence of nourishment and the alchohol is a improper substitute for that. and that is the reason the love fails. Love needs nourishment and for that reason the experiences the old couple went through gave them the nouresnment for their love to be real. the unnourished love people today have is the reason love does not last

response to michelle

It is quite ironic that the narrator either can't see the problems with the relationship, or that she needs to get out of it, yet see still seems to be advising the reader on how the handle the situation.

How to talk to a hunter

I was intrigued by this story. "How to talk to a Hunter" is intended to be the story of most relationships: a selfish, "hunting" man, and a trapped, hopeless woman. Pam Houston writes in the second person, and places different advice or perspectives by saying "your best male friend will say..." or "your best female friend will say..." This allows the story to be universal: anyone can fill in the character's names in the story and make it their own, hypothetically. Houston also uses humor to poke fun at her commentary of modern relationships. The story is on the whole, interesting and somewhat sad. It offers little or no hope of love between a man (or a hunter) and a woman.

RE: Love(steve's)

I'm in complete agreement with steve. Raymond Carver utilizes light and alcohol as representations of time in the story "What We Talk About...Love." I find it rather interesting that the two symbols work in opposition of one another. I guess one could this a unique sort of teamwork which aids the reader through this story.

Ditto

i can understand that. and i know where you're coming from. however there are feminists of all different styles just like there are of any other type of person.


AGREED! sleep is a good thing.

last one JT, i swear

I understand that about the Coyote woman, and yes that is very cool of her, I think. However, if you look at the story from another view point, she is sort of selfishly using the man because at the same time she is hurting this other woman. So its like, a woman putting down another woman for the guy. I don't think any feminist wants to portray that type of message in their stories.

IM GOING TO BED. enough bickering for one night.

"Beginners" and WWTAWWTAL

This is a response to Nicole's post earlier.

Like Nicole, I saw that the most apparent difference between the edited and unedited versions of the story is the way that the old couple's pure love is exhibited, but I also noticed the impact on characterization that edited version has. Other than the names changed for all the men in the story, I noticed that Herb and Mel seemed to be almost different men and that Terri in the edited version seems much weaker than she is in Carver's original work. For example, when Terri corrects Mel in the edited version about the word "Vassal," he replies:

"Vassals, vessels [...] what the fuck's the difference? You knew what I meant anyway. [...]. I'm a heart surgeon, sure, but I'm just a mechanic. I go in and I fuck around and I fix things. Shit"

While, in the original version he (Herb/Mel) says:

"Vassals, vessels, ventricles, vas deferens. Well, you knew what I meant anyway. [...]. I'm a heart surgeon, sure, but really I'm just a mechanic. I just go in and fix things that go wrong with the body."

Clearly, the message is the same in that we see Herb/Mel rejecting his wife's correction and sarcastically trying to prove greater intelligence. The difference I see is in the profanity he uses in the edited quote, which emphasizes his drunkenness, ignorance rather than intelligence, and a more grating flaw in his relationship with Terri. In the original quote he downplays any importance in knowing the word "vassals" by making a small joke in listing medical terms, which affirms his medical intelligence.

With Terri, I saw that there was a striking difference in her reaction to Mel hitting on Laura between the two versions of the text. In the edited version, her response is passive. She says, "Tell your story, [...] then we'll go to that new place okay?", disregarding the comment completely. This marks her as a more vulnerable Terri, the Terri who would be in an abusive relationship with Ed. I don't think that this was the way Carver wanted Terri portrayed since, in his original story, she has a much stronger comeback. She says instead, "Herb, you shit, [...] tell your story. If I weren't in love with you, I damn sure well wouldn't be here in the first place, you can bet on it." In Carver's "Beginners", Terri is a stronger character, making her relationship with Mel/Herb more equal in power than the one in WWTAWWTAL.